Men & Modesty

Adapted from a comment I made on Facebook.

Modesty is always aimed toward women, and I do see why that is: it's fashionable for women to show more skin than men.  If you look at fashion throughout history, men stay covered up and women alter how much skin they show and in what areas.

However, another reason is that men are assumed to just have these voracious sex drives and be incredibly visual—more so than women.  I think no one objects to this because it sounds scientific and because, mainly, no woman wants to be frank about her own sex drive to a Sunday School class.

Women have sex drives too and we can be just as visual as men. True, men's fashions do not reveal as much skin.  But to a certain extent, that's irrelevant.  I'm going to be frank because people tip toe around specifics and it just confuses things: It honestly makes no difference what a man is wearing—I can have sexual thoughts about him regardless. You could say that showing more skin makes these thoughts easier, but still—you can be doing everything you possibly can to not make people think sexual thoughts about you, and you will fail because you do not have control over the minds of others. You just don't. You could be wearing a burqa and men (or women if, for some reason, a man is wearing the burqa) could fantasize about taking it off because it's like a challenge.

I am a visual person; I remember things more when I see them.  But still, like I said, a man can be completely covered up and I can fantasize about him.  Saying this might make readers uncomfortable, but I think it needs to be said because no one else says it.  I don't want to be treated like I'm this innocent creature who just doesn't comprehend or think about sex.  I don't think that such a person should even be placed on a pedestal, because that implies that sexual thoughts are inherently bad.

Letter: Enforcing the Code

A letter from April 11th, with my comments added:

Summer is here, and apparently (apparently) that means immodesty is here as well. I am a graduate of BYU from a few years ago and my husband is currently a student at BYU. Every so often I get a complaint from him that women on campus are immodestly clad and this discourages me. 

What about the Honor Code? Didn’t everyone on campus sign this document setting themselves apart from some of the worlds fashion standards? Tuesday was one of the nicest days we’ve had so far this year, and apparently nice weather gives women license to show leg and shoulders to the world. Legs and shoulders?!?!?  The horror!  The absolute horror!  Let's further sexualize legs and shoulders by demanding that they be covered up!  This behavior is not acceptable. Uh oh, someone just popped a can of "Oh Snap!"  It is not virtuous. By no means is it being an example to the world by being “distinct and different—in happy ways—from the women of the world.” (See Sister Beck, April 2012 Conference Talk).  Seriously?  It's insulting to be compared to "women of the world" when girls at BYU dress nowhere near as provocatively.  It's a gross exaggeration.  And ugh.  Quoting Conference talks.  

 

And I love that she uses the format of "(See ___)" like the church magazines do.

My husband does not want to see these women and I guarantee other virtuous young men don’t want to see them either. I like how she slips in that her husband is a virtuous young man.  Obviously any good, upstanding young man is going to be as judgmental as her husband.  (I say "judgmental" because, the way she describes it, he actively complains about the girls breaking the Honor Code  by showing a few inches of skin above their knees.  Which brings me now to my next point. Honor Code Office: Please enforce the Honor Code. I know you enforce the Honor Code, even in times of extreme pressure. Take Brandon Davies, for example. So now wearing a skirt that's a few inches above the knee is being compared to having extramarital sex?  And the Brandon Davies case was very public; should the HCO likewise make a public spectacle out of these horribly immodest women?  I also know that you enforce the Honor Code when there are violations to the dress and grooming standards. For example, if my husband doesn’t shave and has a test, he is turned away from the testing center and told to shave before taking his test. Have you thought about doing this same thing to women who are violating the Honor Code? I don't like the comparison between dressing immodestly and shaving.  The need to shave is not stressed in church (as far as I know) to the degree that it is at BYU.  When thinking of principles taught in Young Women and Relief Society, I would list modesty as one.  But I doubt a young man my age would describe shaving as one he learns about.  Modesty carries with it the idea that young women can tempt young men, i.e. put their righteousness in peril, by dressing immodestly.  Shaving in no way carries that weight with men.  If a man has stubble, he isn't warned that he could be provoking "dirty" thoughts in young women's minds.  I am a woman and plead with you do be more strict with the women students.  I admit that this is a powerful point.  A woman telling women to dress more modestly is better (and carries more authority) in my eyes than a man telling them to.  Likewise, when a man says that other men should be less judgmental of the young ladies, it carries with it more weight.  However, obviously, her view doesn't represent the views of all of the females at BYU (e.g., me).

Please understand, I know it is a sensitive subject thank you for recognizing that and puts people in an awkward inappropriate? place, but it needs to be fixed in her opinion.  This is an example of stating an opinion as a fact.  In my opinion, the judgmental attitude some people have needs to be fixed. People will complain. People will post on Facebook how dumb BYU is for enforcing the Honor Code, no, people will post on Facebook about how dumb your views are. but that is your job. Please do it.  Sorry, but this comes across as telling the HCO to chide people basically because their rule breaking bothers the author.  It sounds a little selfish.  "I'm uncomfortable with seeing a girl's shoulders.  Tell her to stop!"  Her desire for the HC to be enforced does not seem to come from a place of benevolence and charity.  She's not even pretending (for which I am somewhat grateful) to be looking out for these girls' interests by encouraging modesty.  Their actions bother her and she wants them to stop. 
 

I've thought a long time about why exactly the subject of breaking the dress and grooming standards raises people's ire so much.  I used to be a pharisee, and I probably would have likewise looked down on and complained about "immodestly" dressed girls if I had remained one after coming to BYU.  Why would I get so upset when people weren't following the rules when it really didn't affect me?  It wasn't hurting me at all.  The conclusion I've come to so far is that people get mad when they are obeying the rules and getting no obvious reward or accolade while people who aren't obeying the rules aren't receiving any obvious punishment.  It's "unfair."  It strikes me now as a bit like children tattling on each other, trying to get someone else in trouble for breaking rules.  It's self serving and uncharitable.  Live and let live.

REBECCA TAYLOR
Bountiful

A small irking

I am in a ballet class this semester.  Our required attire is pink tights and a black leotard with pink ballet shoes; for the gents it's a fitted t-shirt or leotard with black tights, leggings, or biking shorts.  There is an addendum to the dress code requirements in the syllabus: "Proper modest cover up is required for hallways if the distance traveled from the locker room is half the length of the RB or more."  Our classroom is quite close to the locker room, so this doesn't apply to us; however, it still irks me.  

This is why: Why is it OK to be dressed in a leotard and tights in front of men in your ballet class but not in front of men in the rest of the RB?  Are they not properly prepared?  Have they not mentally steeled themselves to fight against your tempting ways?  (This is all based on the assumption that the covering up is for the students of the male persuasion, of course.)  Why is it so wrong to walk through the athletic building, which also features an observation window of the pool where team members are wearing bathing suits, in ballet attire?  I could see the point of not walking around campus or through other buildings in ballet attire, but this is the athletic building, where it's expected that people will be in workout/athletic clothing. 

I know it's a small rule tucked away into the syllabus, but the principle of it still bothers me.  It's one thing if you are personally uncomfortable with showing your body and want to cover up; it's another thing for that action to be mandated as a rule.  Although the context is different, you're actually being more modest than you are wearing a bathing suit.  Why is the context of the hallway versus the classroom so different? 

I'm not blaming the syllabus, but this rule actually makes me feel some shame for walking around outside of the classroom in my outfit.  I feel like I should feel bad because the rule implies that there is something wrong with it.

One of my least favorite Viewpoints

It has been a week since the viewpoint "A Rising Epidemic" has been published, which means it's been a week since I wanted to write in and respond.  I haven't yet because there are so many angles of this column that need to be addressed that I don't think I could cover them all.  I want to write in, but maybe I won't cover all of the angles.  

I find two main things wrong with the article: 1. The two halves are contradictory.  2. The second half is judgmental and misguided.  Here it is, with my responses to it.

  

A Rising Epidemic

by Allie McCoy

Students at BYU are incredible.  This reminds me of a toothpaste commercial where they begin with, "Your mouth is amazing," lulling you into the belief that they're going to compliment your mouth, but no—then they start in on how much bacteria and nasty stuff is in it.
Where else is “Stone Cold Sober” a badge of honor or NiCMO considered a terribly scandalous activity?  You spelled 'NCMO' wrong.  There's no 'i.'
Where else can you get thousands of students to attend not only church meetings on Sunday, but FHE Mondays, Devotional Tuesdays and Institute Thursdays.
Even for members of the Church, where else can you find a busier temple where hard-working students wait hours to perform three baptisms?
BYU, and the students who attend, are one of a kind, and that’s something to be proud of.
There are two epidemics rampant on campus that I believe deserve an extra word.
The first is perfectionism — something President Cecil O. Samuelson spoke of during Devotional Tuesday.
“Some mistakenly consider worthiness to be the same as perfection; this is not true,” Samuelson said. Good point.  Very, very true.  “All of the standard works are replete with references to the expectation of perfection and yet all seem to acknowledge that the perfecting of the saints is a process that is likely never to be absolutely complete in immortality.”
If you’re trying to do your best, then you are succeeding. Don’t get yourself down.
You must follow the commandments, you must listen to your church leaders, you must study the word of God — however, those of you who forgot to say your prayers this morning are not ruined.  What's with this list of "you must"s?  And where's the "you must be nice to people" and the "you must not judge others"?
Strive harder, do better, but do not beat yourself up for small failures.
That being said, a second epidemic plagues this school. This is the epidemic of justification.  I'm hoping that she meant to address this second half to a different audience than the first half, because what she's about to say are some of the worst things you can say to a perfectionist.
Many of you may remember a talk President Julie B. Beck gave on campus last year. The stand-out quote went something like this:
“You’re doing better than you think you are, [but] we’re not doing as well as we could.”  AAAAGHHH!  Sentiments like this make me want to pull my hair out!  Let's not focus on how we're not thinking enough of ourselves—let's lightly touch on it and then slam the focus into how we're not doing enough!
It’s true. BYU stands far above other universities when it comes to personal standards; however, at times I think we get too comfortable.  I don't think you're including yourself in this "we."
Some believe since we’re doing better than other people (I know I always have the attitude that I'm better than everyone else), it’s OK if we slip up sometimes.  Um, isn't it?  We are not expected to be flawless!  Get that through your head!!!
Since we don’t drink alcohol, it’s OK we’re consuming energy drinks by the case.  I'd rather have you consuming energy drinks and being nice to people than not and being judgmental.
Since we don’t wear sleeveless shirts, it’s OK if our skirts don’t make it quite to our knees.  Enough with the to-the-knees arguments!  Skirt length does not equal spirituality or personal worth no matter how hard you try to make it so!  What do the inches above another girl's knees have to do with you?  NOTHING!  Why does it bother you so much?  I don't get the feeling that you're doing it out of genuine concern for the spiritual climate of BYU.  And even if it were for that reason, you don't need to worry about it because it isn't your concern.
Since we don’t have full-blown beards, it’s OK if we don’t shave every morning.  What is so awful about stubble that you have to make a special point of mentioning it?  Do short hairs on a man's face really bother you that much?  If so, why??  (And see that she is conveniently not included in this.)
Since we don’t watch every rated R movie in theaters, it’s OK if we can justify it for academic reasons.  R-rated movies are not a black and white issue!  If they were, there wouldn't be so much debate about them!  Do we drink alcohol?  Definitely not.  Do we watch R-rated movies?  Well, that is a personal choice.  Might I also bring up that the R rating is only an American thing, so you're excluding every other country from this classification?  Let people use their own judgment about what they're comfortable watching.  (I do watch R-rated movies, but even if I didn't, I would defend others people's choice to do so.)
“I have been quoted as saying, ‘Do the best you can.’ But I want to emphasize that it be the very best,” President Gordon B. Hinckley said in a leadership conference.  NO NO NO NO NO!  As a perfectionist, you are killing me here.  Best is not good enough!  Do the very best! “We are too prone to be satisfied with mediocre performance. We are capable of doing so much better.”   Some people are, but not everyone is!  Some people are all of the time, but some people are only some of the time.  There is no distinction made about the audience.  There are a lot of people who actually have the problem of never being content with their performance, no matter how great.  This is not what those people (including me) need to hear.
Cougars, we are capable of being better. We are capable of leaving the justifications behind and grasping to the gospel we love.
Honor the Honor Code. Whether or not you believe in it, you signed it. Don’t forget that. 
This epidemic is not limited to students. Teachers, you’re expected to live these standards as well.  We're in college.  They're called professors.  And I know that they're not infallible, but I think it's especially self-righteous to call faculty (as well as students) to repentance.
I’ve been in classes where my teacher defends everything from swearing to viewing rated R movies.  THE HORROR!  Sweetie, it is only your opinion that we should strictly avoid rated R movies.  I hate to break it to you, but not everyone agrees that this is a black-and-white issue.
Yes, they are always justified, but they are not always right.
Please remember you stand for so much more than you think you do. Your actions are an example to someone and you can’t lead them astray.
If you find yourself justifying small mistakes, don’t worry. Repent, work harder. Whatever you do, don’t get caught in complacency.  Who are you to call us to repentance?  What authority do you have?
Just remember President Beck: You are doing better than you think, but you are capable of so much more.

One angle I would attack is how one minute she's comforting perfectionists, and the next minute she's telling them they need to do better.  True, she could be addressing different audiences, but she doesn't make that clear.  Even if she were addressing different audiences, it's not her place to call the complacent to repentance.  

The other angle: Stop picking on the way girls dress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  When I say this, some people will be quick to remind me that we all as BYU students signed an Honor Code.  That is true.  It is a matter of personal integrity that they obey the Honor Code.  But it is none of your business if they do or not.  I am really trying to understand why it (the fact that girls' dress breaks the Honor Code) bothers people so much that they write in letters to the editor.  My main theory is that they get mad that they are obeying the rules and not getting any sort of recognition or reward for it while other people are flaunting the rules and not getting any negative consequences.  I welcome ideas about why this bothers people so much.

I waited with glee for the Tuesday after this letter for the rebuttals, but there was only one.  The first sentence of it especially was golden:  "Calls to repentance without any indication of self-inclusion or humility always fall flat."